Features, activities and land uses

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by Sydney Harbour Foreshore Authority 29 Jun 2009, 6:24pm

Is there a feature, activity or land use in Sydney or Australia that you would also like to see in Bays Precinct? For example, an entertainment and tourist precinct like Darling Harbour or maybe a commercial mixed use precinct like Docklands in Melbourne. 

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Comments (118) Expand All Replies

tony Comment 1 30 Jun 2009, 8:19 AM

I beleive that Glebe Island is the perfect opportunity to expand Sydney's tourist features, as that's what I beleive sydney is all about. Within the heart of the harbour and creating a new Cruise terminal along side a new darling harbour this would be the next destination of sydneys heart with perfect views of the city skyline and harbour bridge it would create a new image of Sydney. To soround the new cruise terminal with a doll image would leave tourist with an bad taste of sydney. I would also agree on creating a sporting venue like the Australian open etc etc. Basically any type of scenario that would attract tourist.

JJP Comment 2 30 Jun 2009, 4:57 PM

I think White Bay should be more foreshore park land, making the Balmain Peninsula a very green area. I also think the old POWER STATION should be utilised somehow. It;'s such an iconic structure of the inner west, and could be turned into something useful or culturally relevant. A performance space such as the Newtown Carriage Works, or a farmers market.

tony Comment 2.1 6 Jul 2009, 3:53 PM

What about creating work. with making tourist attractions with Restraunts, Cafe's Exibition centers, etc etc, With a Cruise terminal beside it and other tourist attractions bringing thousand of peope to glebe island and white bay every week, Small & large buisness with thousands of Partime and full time work created. Also maintaining a stable income to the community. I also beleive the Gov should look at creating a new Ikon for sydney maybe not as extreme as the opera house but somthing amazing. Don't get me wrong I would love to see all this area turned into a peace full green land but what good will it do for the people?? No work, Less Tourist, less income and work for Sydney!!

suzanne Comment 2.1.1 10 Jul 2009, 3:14 PM

bringing thousands of people to glebe and white bay every week.... you obviously dont live there. Its packed already. We welcome more open space and parkland, but access to the areas is really tight.

tony Comment 2.1.1.1 14 Jul 2009, 11:20 AM

Hi Suzanne,

I actually do live there!

Hayley L Comment 2.2 13 Jul 2009, 4:02 PM

This would tie in nicely with Tom W's idea below of having the power staion used as a working research area, with the surrownding grounds then kept as park land.

Scott Comment 2.3 14 Jul 2009, 8:50 AM

If the metro station is actually built, using this area as a big park would be not only unimaginative, but more importantly a huge wasted opportunity, and (another) failure to integrate transport and land-use.

We need to get the full possible use out of our public transport investment. Parking in the precinct can be limited to reduce the traffic impact on surrounding roads and ensure the public transport infrastructure is fully utilised. Of course the Bays Precinct should include areas of high-quality parkland, but this should be part of a mix of uses, not the only use.

RJE Comment 3 1 Jul 2009, 1:36 PM

What’s wrong with keeping our heritage? I can remember a fantastic night when East Darling Harbour was still being used for cargo, one of those giant container boats was maneuvering into dock on a gorgeous, sunny late Sydney afternoon. Everyone on Pyrmont Bridge stopped to watch. Cameras flashed. Tourists wiled away a few magic minutes. They knew they were seeing something really special, something you don’t see in hardly any other major world city.

Its a real shame that we have lost most of that. Don’t sanitize White Bay! Ms Keneally, you are not going to keep the seat of Balmain, the Libs and their allies the Greens are now too strong in that yuppified “new Mosman”. So why not do something brave instead?

At least keep some of our heritage – a working harbour. Future generations and the rest of Sydney will thank you.

MattB Comment 3.1 3 Jul 2009, 4:24 PM

One accident with a cargo ship and our beautiful harbour could be set back 100 years overnight by the environmental catastrophe caused. I don't think the sight of a docking cargo ship is romantic. I would prefer to see a yacht, kayaker, dolphins and sea birds. Go down to Botany or Woollongong if you want to see cargo ships and see how nice it is there.

RJE Comment 3.1.1 3 Jul 2009, 6:46 PM

Yeah “accidents” with cargo happen a lot. But thanks for the travel tip. I do like Wollongong (and Newcastle) and when I first moved to the inner west, it was a bit like those cities around here. There were plenty of cargo boats and fascinating activities on the waterfront to watch. Its pretty quiet now around the Glebe foreshores... peaceful and still. Like Lake Burley Griffith. Generally the only sound is cyclists screaming abuse at pedestrians and vice versa. Ah paradise.. right Matt?

Karen1 Comment 3.1.1.1 9 Jul 2009, 3:07 PM

I don't see anyone walking around the foreshores of white bay (because you can't) saying how "fascinating" it looks, although I could think of some other terms to describe it. I have lived there since I was a child (1978), and I wouldn't want to go back to what it was like even then. Bring on some recreation areas, parks and why not make the old power station a farmers market. Alternatively I am not opposed to a cruise ship terminal if it looked like circular quay (bring on WildFire)!

balmainweaver Comment 3.2 10 Jul 2009, 12:54 PM

RJE obviously didn't live next to the ^ White Bay container terminal when they were operating 24 hours a day, with attendant light and noise pollution. Nice to see the Govt is restoring some of this romance with 24 hour activity back on 6 White Bay

TTMaree Comment 3.3 14 Jul 2009, 11:08 PM

RJE we have a working harbour, near an airport, all the stuff which is less than ideal for people's health, all together.

I'm sure if you'd lived 150 years ago you'd be far less likely to want to keep Balmain's "heritage". The current boats are nothing like "our hertitage", smog, smoke and a very unhealthy environment would have been what you would see.

There are still boats on the water - ferries, they move people instead of things and they have their own charm.

Change doesn't mean sanitization, you can see from this discussion that not many people want another Darling Harbour...if only you would stop accusing people (especially the locals, many of whom have been here for a long time) of all manner of personality traits and offer something to the discussion you might find we're not all that bad after all.

johnhosking Comment 4 1 Jul 2009, 2:55 PM

The White Bay Power Station has to go. What an eyesore! Whilst an enthusiastic supporter of conserving Australia's industrial heritage, I cannot agree with those who believe this building to be worth preservation. It is badly built, ugly, irrelevant, obstructive and lacks historical significance. Old power stations are a dime a dozen throughout the country - but who's expressing much, if any concern about them? Nowhere have I come across such an ill-informed and misguided push to preserve for preservation's sake. If anything is to be preserved, it should be the area's original natural state.

Sue Comment 4.1 1 Jul 2009, 3:38 PM

Yes, Its not the greatest, but it does have a certain, stark beauty! However it probably won't be improved by scrubbing it up, and most of the ideas I've heard (an international hotel!) are pretty wacko. But what is the "natural state" John? Spell it out – before the white man came? Before that?

The old power station at Rozelle (near Iron Cove Bridge), was a magnificent structure, and could have been re-used. But sadly, no one gave a damn about it, and look at the travesty (Balmain Sores) which has replaced it. Lets hope we get nothing like that at White Bay.

pedro Comment 5 2 Jul 2009, 7:50 PM

This area is screaming out for parkland. Tourism in this area makes little sense. I wouldn't think too many people would like to see another Darling Harbour or similar venture. I certainly don't. Wouldn't it be novel to improve the foreshore's green space?

Jimmy Comment 6 2 Jul 2009, 8:31 PM

There's a great opportunity to use the White Bay Power Station in a similar manner London's Tate Modern, built in another former power station.

Philippe Comment 6.1 22 Jul 2009, 1:14 PM

We already have the "lightly visted" MCA. As a side note - London is still struggling to decide what to do about Battersea power station.

julie Comment 7 2 Jul 2009, 9:18 PM

The White Bay Power Station is part of our history and our culture. It is fascinating to walk through and see a part of history which we will never see again. In order to make the most of this historic site, I believe we could incorporate it into a parklands with where visitors could walk and enjoy the harbour views and relive history at the same time with tours of the power station. Parklands provide more open space in a build up area. Another Darling Harbour type venture would destory the area and we don't need a retial/commercial area as we already have one at Birkinhead and again the infrastructure is already overloaded with cars and people.

MattB Comment 8 3 Jul 2009, 4:16 PM

The greatest opportunity presented by this area is the possibility of continuous foreshore access by pedestrians, cyclists and passive watercraft. This will only be possible if industry is not inlcuded in this plan.

Lets look at whats already taking place on the foreshore of Rozelle & Blackwattle bays:

The Bicentenial Park foreshore walk - Good

The Dry Boat Storage and Marina Facility - Bad

Residential buildings with public foreshore access - Good

Lets go with the good in this new area by building residential with a 30 - 50 metre waterfront buffer and park all the way around. The Old Glebe Island Swing more…

 

RJE Comment 8.1 3 Jul 2009, 6:54 PM

The pushiest and most powerful lobby of all are the tiny wealthy elite living nearby who only the want the value of their residential properties to increase. For them, a park is the only option. But not a park with any view blocking trees! Quick, get the poison bottle out!

MattB Comment 8.1.1 3 Jul 2009, 7:06 PM

RJE you have a point but residential still grants the rest of us access and is our best realistic option. If you give it to industry it will look like James Craig Road - with no access for anyone except millionare boat owners.

malcolmwilson Comment 8.1.1.1 4 Jul 2009, 10:41 AM

Matt - I agree with your vision for a pedestrian link/network around the whole BP waterfront and I think that's very achievable - if not always on the water's edge, then not very far back from it and returning to the water wherever possible. Parts of it could start to happen quite quickly (eg at the head of Rozelle Bay between Federal Park and Whites Creek where the flotsam/jetsam dump continues to exist on an expired lease???). However, I disagree strongly with you on the residential component - you can put residential almost anywhere - this area we're talking about more…

 

moderation Comment 8.1.2 8 Jul 2009, 4:17 PM

I'm sorry RJE, that I live near White Bay.I am not part of the "wealthy elite".I have live here 35 years when no-one wanted to live here. I don't want all parkland and I wouldn't deny anyone, even if they had money, to be able to decide what is good for the suburb they live in. I don't like jealous people and we should all try to get what is right for a community and not have Governments push through unpopular ideas or work on their own agendas.

So lets support people, no matter where they live, to achieve a great outcome for everyone.

RJE Comment 8.1.2.1 19 Jul 2009, 4:54 PM

OK, but this land belongs to EVERYONE. The State has to make a decision on land use in EVERYONE'S interest, not just those living nearby.

I also live nearby, btw. And walk around the area almost everyday of my life

Karen1 Comment 8.1.3 9 Jul 2009, 3:17 PM

What are you talking about????? Talk about putting people in boxes, talk to me when you've grown up in the area like me. My husband and I have struggled to buy a house in this area because I grew up here, it's not my fault the real estate is now worth a bit, since I was a child I have wished for more green space and I am now 39 so I have been waiting a while. Perhaps you would prefer to live in another area of Sydney, perhaps Tempe or St Peters is more to your liking????

RJE Comment 8.1.3.1 19 Jul 2009, 5:01 PM

Karen, my "box" is in walking distance to White Bay. I have lived round here since the 70s, when Balmain WAS like St Peters.

And I wouldn't have a problem with St Peters. What's the problem? Tempe might be a bit too close to the flight path. But if I bought there, I would know that.

When I moved here, I knew I was near a working harbour. Didn't you?

TTMaree Comment 8.1.4 14 Jul 2009, 10:57 PM

RJE You clearly don't have children. The wish for open space is for alot of people so that they can have somewhere to run around and enjoy fresh air.

While many people still choose to live in the suburbs, we are all being encouraged to reduce our carbon footprints,the easiest way to do that is to live in densely populated areas such as the inner west. So actually we aren't pushy and powerful, we are being useful.

I think you will find we live in certain areas because some of them remind us of the towns we grew up in, people helping each other and knowing who you neighbour is...sorry, if for some strange reason that bothers you.

We don't want to live near Darling Harbour, if we did we would have bought properties near Darling Harbour. Changing the whole outlook of a suburb is huge, this is not about money it's about our lives, many of us will be here in 30 years time and we are entitled to put our views forward.

RJE Comment 8.1.4.1 19 Jul 2009, 5:09 PM

Yes TTMaree, I do have children... Boy this is tiresome, people making assumptions about how and where I live!

And making such emotional responses

Maybe I struck a nerve...

I think the best way to reduce our carbon footprint is to live in dense, inner city locations close to transport. And unload our goods close to their markets, so they don't have to be trucked back from distant ports.

Obviously I support the working harbour at White Bay. And guess what? I did grow up in a port town! And when I moved here, Balmain felt just like home

jvankern Comment 9 4 Jul 2009, 6:23 PM

I believe this creates an enormous opportunity to revitalise the ecology of our bays area and connect in our daily lives to our unique Australian nature. Something that is easily pushed to the background in city life. A shared recreation and environmental area can be created which fits in perfectly with the Sydney 2030 objectives. Creating a loop by using the Glebe Island Bridge as a recreational pathway, would increase the attractivity of the area tremendously. Entertainment and activities based on sustainable practice and education would fit in really well.

Sue Comment 10 5 Jul 2009, 5:48 PM

I miss the big boats. If we can't have the car carrier or container ships, at least cruise boats are better than nothing. This is NOT just about local residents' wishes, and I am one. The area is a resource for the whole of Sydney, and deep harbours are vital to our economy – and in the end, the well being of ALL of us.

We should not lose sight of that. Those people clamoring for a park and open space for us lucky few who live nearby are being very selfish. The boats and the associated industries were there a long time before most of us were.

We knew that when we moved in, didn't we?

suzanne Comment 10.1 10 Jul 2009, 3:25 PM

I miss the big boats as well,they were magnificent gliding in and out, what i dont miss is the loud engines left on for 48 hours. The people of sydney need more space. I like the idea of green space and an art gallery. No to Darling Habour type entertainment quarter with pubs.

glc Comment 11 6 Jul 2009, 3:52 PM

I think we should try to find an example of this kind of area where redevelopment has been a success. In my view, Darling Harbour is a disaster never to be repeated, and Docklands in Melbourne is a failure - not built on a human scale, and too disconnected from anything else.

Any other suggestions from international experiences? The nearest examples I can think of are old World Expo sites, which almost uniformly have been stuffed up - South Bank in Brisbane keeps getting re-done, Lisbon has no-one there etc.

Scott Comment 11.1 14 Jul 2009, 9:21 AM

I agree about Darling Harbour- very poor urban design made what could have been a world class urban precinct into a tacky theme-park. Melbourne's docklands show worrying signs, but I think it's too early yet to tell whether it can be called a failure (any brand new area will take time to establish its own character). Some more info on waterfront development around the world is here:

http://www.pps.org/waterfronts/

ballast Comment 12 6 Jul 2009, 8:56 PM

White Bay is a great opportunity to do what has not been done properly in sydney before - to create a harbourside precinct that blends tourism, retail, open space and brings vitality. The cruise terminal if it has to move from Barrangaroo ( and not sure why that decision was made) should be integrated into a multi purpose building - that also is a convention facility and perhaps a hotel. There should be retail that is used by the locals and brings people from around he city - perhaps a themed precinct - providores, wine merchants,coffee. If the power station needs to be preserved - a sculpture gallery or something iconic. Plan it all together not bit by bit so it is a dogs breakfast . We have enough of that.

rinsley Comment 13 7 Jul 2009, 10:37 PM

Given that the Light Rail runs very close and there is an established Rail facility servicing White Bay, would it not make sense for the Light Rail to be extended to serve the White Bay area, as opposed to the proposed Metro. Surely this could be done for a fraction of the cost, given the existing facilities. I am sure it would be possible for the light rail to service the northern end of the CBD too. Regards other land uses It would be nice to see a mixture but well planned scheme in the area. Utmost it would be nice if the immediate foreshore were available to the public especially on the White Bay aspect of the bays precinct as this is a narrow component of land and already over trafficked part of the area. Glebe Island could meet the more commercial requirements of the scheme, whether that is a ferry terminal, other tourist attraction, extension of the CBD or minor industry. By establishing the light rail this would provide the necessary infrastructure to support such a scheme. In summary I hope it is not a piecemeal approach and local residential impact is considered in whatever is decided.

bobrail Comment 13.1 19 Jul 2009, 6:55 PM

I'm not sure how a light rail extension would get any customers. If it ran from Balmain E to the existing light rail stop, it would be heading off in the wrong direction before turning to the City, and the ferry would be quicker. If it ran round the foreshore, over the Glebe Island Swing bridge and joined the existing line near where it is in a deep cutting, it would still be slower than cycling. If it ran over the Glebe Island Swing bridge and into a tunnel under Pyrmont and onto the existing track somewhere near the casino, it would be really expensive and still only go to Central, not the offices in the CBD.

E Connelly Comment 14 9 Jul 2009, 12:42 PM

A number of us local residents believe the White Bay power station is a total eyesore. We believe that heritage is important and maintaining iconic places/buildings etc for prosperity is valuable and important ... however the White Bay Power Station is certainly not something that is 'beautiful'!

We believe the land/area provides an excellent opportunity to expand the Sydney (and Australian) tourist market and with this in mind, we strongly supported the once talked about idea of a Disneyland. Indeed, Disneyland or a similar entertainment park/precinct would be a wonderful addition to this area.

suzanne Comment 14.1 10 Jul 2009, 3:29 PM

Disneyland...... you have got to be joking - try having the royal easter show there all year round. Entertainment precint = pubs = alcohol = the problem we currently have in George St and Darling Harbour. Something similar to Qld's. precint with the Modern Art Gallery and parkland would be better suited.

malcolmwilson Comment 14.2 15 Jul 2009, 7:59 PM

Seems as if you've never been inside the power station. It's equivalent in height to a 12 storey building. It has a continuous line of machinery still in situ. It is heritage writ large. Simply stunning. With the right use it could be relevant as well as amazing. Yes - part of the exterior, where an adjoining building was demolished c35ya, looks very ordinary - the blank concrete block wall facing Rozelle Bay - but you could do something with that. But destroy the building? Never!

And as for Disneyland, why don't we throw in the Grand Canyon and Times Square as well??!!

joey57 Comment 15 9 Jul 2009, 8:46 PM

I would like it to used as part working harbour. A passenger terminal should be a must. The area doesn't have enough sporting ovals for the amount of teams in the area. The fish markets could be relocated there. Definitely no housing or hi rise. White Bay power station can stay or go. I'm not fussed but if it goes I hope someone has the foresight to extend Mullens Street and link it near the Anzac Bridge to avoid that bottleneck in the peak periods.

Whatever the outcome, it is not going to please everybody. I just hope they get it right.

Tom W Comment 16 9 Jul 2009, 11:32 PM

This may be more of idea from left field and admittedly the cost (upfront at least) could be high. The idea has 2 parts:

First, is to remove the old cold fired internals from the powerstation and replace with a small high efficiency gas turbine.

Second, convert the leftover space inside the powerstation into lecture theatres, labs, conference rooms, student accomodation and run the small gas plant as a working tafe/university where students can work/live on site with the focus of the facility being clean energy research.

The benefits are that the power produced could be sold during peak demand periods or backup CBD power supply (or possibly to power the new metro lines??) and cover the cost of training the students.

I'm not advocating a dirty big powerstation right on the harbour but many european cities have small gas powered units in urban areas and a wide range of skills could be supported( welders, boilermakers, mechanical / structural/ electrical / aero engineers,etc...)

Don't know what everyone else thinks but I think it could be a great opportunity for technical education...could be even better if they put a metro station there too!!

malcolmwilson Comment 16.1 15 Jul 2009, 8:11 PM

Tom - this is the line of thinking Government should be pursuing, but I disagree with you on one point. What makes White Bay unique is that it still has a complete line of machinery that tells the power generation story as it was. Even that big dial hanging from the roof, and the gloomy control room... Leave them there, and use the 3/4 of the remaining empty space for contemporary electricity production.

balmainweaver Comment 17 10 Jul 2009, 12:50 PM

The point of the White Bay wharves, at the end of Wharf 6 should be preserved as a park, in keeping with the use of almost all points in the harbour. It has a curved bay with access to the water, unlike a lot of other recently created parks, and would be ideal for launching and landing canoes and kayaks. The extensive park across the water at Pyrmont has little, if any, access to the water. There is an existing structure which could incorporate a shark net to allow safe swimming. Contrary to what has become the official position, there are still a lot of dangerous sharks in the harbour. It is still not too late to pay some go-away money to Baileys, if the Govt has stupidly painted itself into a corner. A surprisingly large amount of money was found to turn Balast Point into a treeless monstrosity.

suzanne Comment 17.1 10 Jul 2009, 3:34 PM

I live in Pyrmont and fought for that park. There are 3 major points of entry into the water as well as 9 different stepladders for climbing in and out.

muirss01 Comment 18 12 Jul 2009, 8:22 PM

I beleive the area should be a blend of uses, that is the only way to ensure a vibrant living area. In doing this though it needs to be done in a way that creates an attractive area that people want to spend time in and enjoy.

My ideas area as follows.

1) Residential should be part of the soliution, and the best area is the Rozelle railyards as these could easily be re-developed into residential. In doing this we must ensure that it is done in line with the rest of the area which is a set of unique dwellings and more…

 

Alison Arnold Comment 19 12 Jul 2009, 9:16 PM

How about using the area to create community gardens and allotments available to all Sydney residents and make Sydney the first truly sustainable city of the future. Don't build sanitised parks for the benefit of the yachting brigade, or noisy pubs and bars for the young. Here is an opportunity to create a network of gardens that people can reclaim as their own and use to grow food.

Russell Comment 19.1 12 Jul 2009, 11:51 PM

Alison, have you ever been to White Bay? Most of the area is on concrete pylons. There are around 4 million people living in the Sydney basin. Do you know how much land would be required to make our city “sustainable” in food production?

malcolmwilson Comment 19.2 15 Jul 2009, 8:38 PM

Alison - surely you jest. Cities are where people live and work. The countryside is where you grow food and trees. This concept might sound a bit old-fashioned but it has stood the test of time. Take a walk around the Bays Precinct - it's a lot bigger than even 1000 community gardens! And why have a sustainable city anyway? The very nature of cities is that they concentrate activity for reasons of efficiency/effectiveness. It's the ether in which cities exist that supports them. What's wrong with that?

Russell Comment 20 12 Jul 2009, 11:36 PM

OK, so I won’t suggest “working harbour.” That’ll just attract all those snotty thumbs down.

So we don’t like to know about what makes out society tick, gives us the money to buy our Chinese bicycles, feed our labradoodles, landscape our parks.

Heaven forbid that see we where our new cars come from. Or (horror!) made...

Funny thing though – that deep water harbour, those port facilities, those silos, the boat building facilities and a lot more industry now gone were all here before ANY of us purchased property in the area.

Look closely, into your hearts, before you post.

MattB Comment 20.1 13 Jul 2009, 1:15 PM

Yes those dirty industries were all here before we purchased property - but we try to move forwards and improve the place. I can't understand those who want to go back to the dark and dirty old indsutrial days.

Lets move into the future - clean, green and accessible.

malcolmwilson Comment 20.1.1 15 Jul 2009, 8:41 PM

And relevant.

Lytton Comment 20.1.2 23 Jul 2009, 10:32 AM

Yeah MattB - I think motherhood is a really good thing too. Thank you for highlighting Russell's point. That the insideous nature of the "clean and green" weasel wording hides so many real issues that we selfishly don't want to face.

Dirty industries were here but we "move forward?", or is it that we just move them to somewhere less valuable, to affect people less valuable?

Are you (and the folk who gave you the thumbs up) seriously saying that you don't buy and consume products involving chemical plants, abatoirs, oil processing plants, tanneries, saw mills, concrete batchers or any of the other myriad industries that once populated this foreshore?

Is it really "greener" that the soap that was once produced on the Unilever site (now appartments in white bay) is now produced in another country, under unknown labour and pollution controls and then imported to used on your clean, green self?

You want to lobby industry out of the area? Fine. But please don't claim it's for the benefit of the environment.

MattB Comment 20.1.2.1 23 Jul 2009, 6:12 PM

Industry does indeed equal pollution. Your right about me wanting to move it away from where me and my family lives. Why? Because what I really care about here is the environment both on the foreshore, and on and beneath the harbours surface. The air we breathe. This is obviously of no consequence to you as people like Lytton are too engrossed in themselves and the things they consume to give a hoot about anything else. Your just like the new middle class chinese - happy to live in a smog filled hell hole as long they have heaps of stuff. I pity you slaves of consumerism and worshippers of industry!

Lytton Comment 20.1.2.1.1 24 Jul 2009, 3:46 PM

Matt B, I don't need your pity but thank you for verifying my point: that you are content to allow pollution to continue, as long as it isn't near where "you and your family live". If it's where other people and their families live then that's OK? I guess your vision of "clean and green" hasn't incorporated the notion of the biosphere yet.

I don't know why you're so down on the "middle class Chinese" - they always speak very highly of you and, I dare say, have a better grasp of English grammar than you just displayed.

MattB Comment 20.1.2.1.1.1 27 Jul 2009, 8:13 PM

What the ????

Let me have another go. I am simply advocating a clean environment - everwhere (but this forum is about where I live - get it?)

Its people who have such a great problem with this concept that are ruining the chance of a change in direction, a change for the better.

RichardK Comment 20.1.2.1.1.2 28 Jul 2009, 9:17 PM

Good point Lytton, and this exchange (which I just stumbled across while scrolling through) is pretty funny. There is a real class element to all that "green" motherhood stuff MattB is spouting, but probably he doesn't realise it. People like him are happy to banish the activities on which their prosperity is based onto poorer people, or preferable right out of sight altogether. Somewhere like Shanghai.

Just as long as those "pitiful" Chinese keep on buying everything we can sell them and go on making us rich enough to afford waterfront property...

TTMaree Comment 20.2 14 Jul 2009, 7:01 PM

Russell, we don't live in 100 years ago when it was unknown (or ignored) that dirty industry and good health don't go hand in hand. It's not about snotty thumbs down, it's a matter of being practical. The Botany area has airports and harbours and not so many residents, therefore that's where the facilities have been placed.

A working harbour 100 years ago would have looked very different to one today as well, you can't live in the past.

pejahu Comment 21 13 Jul 2009, 4:49 PM

Forget the housing idea. It will end up overbuilt, packed out and ghetto-like as with so many other places (eg Jacksons Landing, Woolstonecraft etc)

We just cant do decent harbourside housing developments, due to useless planning authorities and developer greed.

Why not have a simple overall policy....that ALL foreshore that becomes available,anywhere on the harbour, be turned into parklands, incorporating some open public spaces

(a la Centennial park?) for community events (if considered necessary)

Dobbles Comment 21.1 14 Jul 2009, 10:41 AM

I pictured the White Bay Power station as a museum/gallery the same as the Tate Modern in London, and with retail/tourist facilities around the area with parkland and low density residential and hotels.

The Power Station could also be converted in a hotel. I guess the possibilities are endless and we need to figure out what Sydney needs and is lacking at the moment. Maybe more theatre space? A convention centre (therefore leaving room for the one at Darling Harbour to be demolished and replaced with other facilities)?

TTMaree Comment 21.1.1 14 Jul 2009, 6:56 PM

I think the Tate Modern idea is a good one, it has done great things in London.

I think anything done in regard to hotels or music will only be pulling money from other areas, and these things become popular for a while then a new venue opens up and they are forgotten.

Why would we have a convention centre when Darling Harbour has one, we don't need such additional traffic coming through. That would just mean Darling Harbour would receive extra open area when actually it should be on the other side of the harbour.

malcolmwilson Comment 21.2 15 Jul 2009, 9:03 PM

A big YES to your ban on ugly housing development but a little no to using all the foreshores for parks. I love parks, but you can have too much of a good thing. Certainly use some of the space for active/passive parkland (including the tip of White Bay beyond Wharf 6), but don't waste the deep water wharfage. As someone earlier says, allocate recreational boating to Blackwattle and Rozelle Bays and commercial shipping to White Bay - both with environmental constraints (limited noise; no water pollution; all cruise liner coach trips into the city via the old Glebe Island more…

 

amber Comment 21.2.1 19 Jul 2009, 5:59 PM

How about some active recreation options for kids & youth, utilising the semi industrial nature of the area, reusing warehouse space, with a modern twist, for example the Lollipops playland model for younger kids, or Monster Skate Park, currenty no such places on offer in the Pyrmont/ Inner west. A Luna Park can only be visited occasionally,& is a big expense to a family. A "Boy Charlton" type pool featuring the harbourside location can be iconic as well as servicing locals & fitness. Balmain is extremely over developed for housing, the reuse of the adjacent area should address this, as well as creating a place that is useful and accessible to Sydney in general.

malcolmwilson Comment 21.3 15 Jul 2009, 9:04 PM

A big YES to your ban on ugly housing development but a little no to using all the foreshores for parks. I love parks, but you can have too much of a good thing. Certainly use some of the space for active/passive parkland (including the tip of White Bay beyond Wharf 6), but don't waste the deep water wharfage. As someone earlier says, allocate recreational boating to Blackwattle and Rozelle Bays and commercial shipping to White Bay - both with environmental constraints (limited noise; no water pollution; all cruise liner coach trips into the city via the old Glebe Island more…

 

Liz Comment 21.4 21 Jul 2009, 9:23 PM

Housing is not such a bad option. Why the use of the word "ghetto"? Most waterfront property is pretty pricey, actually the reverse meaning of that word.

And developer "greed"? People who build housing are bad people? Really? Well, maybe you think that until you need to find somewhere for you and your children to live.

Then if you can't and you are homeless, then the planning authorities are "useless."

Do you want to live in a park, pejahu? Giving people, especially low income people, a decent place to live close to the city and all amenities, normally the preserve of the rich, would be my most desired option for this land.

wk. Comment 21.5 24 Jul 2009, 1:56 PM

i totally agree - we should not let this land fall into the hand of developers who will just try to cram in as many apartments as possible. the idea of providing 'affordable housing' is unachievable in this area (due to its location). THe bays precinct should be for the people!

Parklands should be mixed with with cafes, restaurants, bars, fish markets, small museums/galleries ect, similar to the corso in Manly. Whatever the proposal, it should be entirely orientated around public transport. (although the existing metro proposal is a waste of money - what has the state government got against light rail??)

I like what they have done at blaxland park.

Lee Comment 22 14 Jul 2009, 10:48 AM

What about a club with a music venue. It could be a family friendly, casual lunch place during the day with a view and a balcony. Then be a music venue at night. We need more music venues in the inner west. Let’s support our local music scene.

Notice how there are not many comments for more residential

Lee Comment 23 14 Jul 2009, 10:49 AM

What about a club with a music venue. It could be a family friendly, casual lunch place during the day with a view and a balcony. Then be a music venue at night. We need more music venues in the inner west. Let’s support our local music scene.

Notice how there are not many comments for more residential

TTMaree Comment 24 14 Jul 2009, 6:44 PM

Oh...I see what's going on now...Firstly agree to the Tourist Terminal and then open up a forum which asks us for big ideas...to go with the Tourist Terminal. Everyone talking about transporting people into the city etc. won't have to worry about the traffic because I believe that whatever ends up around the Power Station area is going to be fit for purpose for tourists, not residents.

So in that case we should probably do the opposite of what Darling Harbour has to offer...which is basically a large shopping centre for tourists. While its outdoor experiences are all great, the more…

 

malcolmwilson Comment 24.1 15 Jul 2009, 9:33 PM

It's simplistic to think that the opposite of a resident is a tourist. This suggests that resident = good and tourist = bad. The focus must be on what we're providing. We should be providing stuff (parks, paths, public transport links) that locals need, and if that includes cultural things that also appeal to non-residents (eg a fish market) then we have a win-win. Where we strike difficulty is when the site suggests uses that residents don't need, such as a passenger shipping terminal or super yacht berths. If such sites are rare, and the need is established, and resident amenity won't be too adversely affected, then I believe residents have an obligation to share - especially if the use predates the resident.

TTMaree Comment 25 14 Jul 2009, 6:51 PM

This may sounds like a bizarre idea but what about something green such as a botanical garden? Imagine another fabulous garden on the harbour.

We also don't have something such as a petting zoo anywhere nearby (I guess the closest children of the city get is the horse riding at Moore Park?) how about some kind of area where children can interact with their environment and animals.

bromfield Comment 26 14 Jul 2009, 8:38 PM

Definitely not another Darling Harbour! I think we need a mixture of working harbour maritime activity although not a big marina for power boats. Walking paths, bike paths, open space, bushland, parkland, places for children and young people to play and congregate, places for artists and creative endeavours, support for recreational boating such as rowing, paddling and sailing, if there is residential, low rise, smart design, sustainable, public art and sculpture, opportunities for sport and recreation eg tennis courts, some commercial activity, perhaps purpose-build offices for NGOs. Make it people-friendly and it will be enjoyed by locals and tourists alike. I would prefer not to see it used for cruise ships - Barangaroo would be preferable for this purpose.

jro Comment 27 14 Jul 2009, 10:45 PM

What about extending Sydney's ferry network to this area of the harbour? If we're all for integrated transport then the Blackwattle Bay/Rozelle Bay/White Bay/Glebe Island area is one of two areas of the harbour completely lacking in passenger water transport (the other is Middle Harbour, but that's for another forum).

The Pyrmont Bay ferry is very popular with tourists but doesn't get much use apart from that - why not either extend it into these areas, or create a new route from scratch?

Wharves could be located (initially) at:

• off Refinery Drive, Pyrmont

• Sydney Fish Market site

• end of Glebe Pt Road

As other areas are developed (e.g. White Bay) an extra wharf or two can be added.

The light rail would be another perfect mode of transport to extend here. The rail entrance is already there - use it and build a branch line into the area. If you are going to have residential here, keep the cars out as much as possible. Give people a reason not to use their cars.

jro Comment 28 14 Jul 2009, 11:02 PM

Darling Harbour and Docklands are NOT what this area should be. Docklands is dry and lifeless, no one goes in there and they had to extend the tram routes deliberately to get people there (and they still don't want to go in there except if they work there). Darling Harbour is great for tourists but lacks a lot otherwise.

We need something iconic here (and I mean iconic, not kitch) - the tip of Glebe Island would be perfect. How about a museum of Aboriginal culture and art, something Australia doesn't have and sorely needs? A proper opera theatre for Sydney (leaving the Opera House as a concert venue or venue for smaller productions?) Tennis Centre (demolish the awful concrete ghetto at Homebush)? Soccer stadium?

malcolmwilson Comment 28.1 15 Jul 2009, 9:46 PM

jro - I reckon you're on the right track, although I think the icon site that Bob Carr envisaged at the northern end of Barangaroo would be far better for an opera theatre, given its proximity to the Opera House (concert venue) and Walsh Bay (Sydney Theatre Company and Sydney Dance Company). I think you would be wasting a prime harbour site for tennis courts (except a small number for local use) and certainly for a stadium (to wit, Docklands again).

Dange Comment 29 15 Jul 2009, 12:15 PM

I believe that Glebe Island and White Bay should remain as a working port for non dangerous goods for the following reasons.

1. It has current deep water access for large ships so no dredging is required.

2. An ideal transport hub for goods. I think that the transport for goods to this area is ideal. It has an existing railway line that is double tracked all the way to the main goods line at Dulwich Hill. Which means it could handle more rail traffic than the current port at Botany. The Port Botany rail line often becomes tied up with more…

 

malcolmwilson Comment 29.1 15 Jul 2009, 10:37 PM

Dange - I like your idea about using perfectly good existing resources, and despair about turning everything over to parks and community gardens as the highest and best use of the entire Bays Precinct. I'm no shipping or land transport expert but White Bay/Glebe Island, which I believe is the only part of the precinct that should be used for commercial shipping, has capacity limited to a dozen or so ships. Some of the deep water wharves have been abandoned (such as the old wheat wharves between the silos and the tip of Glebe Island) or removed (the old coal more…

 

Dobbles Comment 29.1.1 17 Jul 2009, 4:23 PM

The reason I propose a new convention centre is that it has already been claimed that Sydney's is no longer large enough, lacks facilities and needs upgrading. Sydney has already been losing a lot of events to other states and as soon as Melbournes new centre opens we have an even tougher time to lure these events to Sydney.

I too do not want to see more parkland, I think Sydney has a good share even for inner city residents and Barangaroo also proposes parkland. Some park areas are fine, but for a majority or even large section seems to be more…

 

Dange Comment 29.1.2 18 Jul 2009, 12:59 PM

Your right malcolmwilson. Glebe Island and White Bay probably would not cut the mustard as a stand alone port. But what about the idea of usingit as a sub-port of Port Botany? If there is not enough room at Port Botany a ship could be diverted to White Bay to dock. The freight at Botany that needs to go on that ship could be loaded on a train and taken down to meet the boat. Unloaded off the train onto the boat. The containers waiting on the boat could be unloaded off onto a hard standing area to wait while more…

 

Adam Comment 30 17 Jul 2009, 7:42 PM

We are faced with a massive change in the way that we manage our cities due to a necessary adjustment in our lifestyle for Climate Change. There is no option but to make these changes before it is to late for all of us.

This area represents an opportunity to establish a sustainable community in our city.

An precinct that can measure its emissions

An precinct that can reduce the carbon footprint of all its residents

An precinct that can be a showcase of what is possible.

where residents don't have to get into a car to shop or drop the kids off

Where there is a regular ferry service to the City

Where there is elements of the maritime uses of the past

Even if it means consolidating our urban environment

Savvy Comment 30.1 18 Jul 2009, 10:49 AM

In the end, the Bays Precinct has to pay for itself.

Keep the bulk container area which is already in use. Use the old power station for arty/education use. Glebe Island area is a deep water port, replace car carriers with a passenger ships and beautiful terminal, a couple of restaurants, surrounded by a park. Place a Metro station there for passengers and visitors to the park/arts centre. In the end some money is being made for the government and we see an occasional cruise ship and there is a park everyone can use.

zaw Comment 31 19 Jul 2009, 12:17 PM

I'm not opposed to an entertainment and tourist precinct but I think we should try to avoid replicating Darling Harbour as it presents as a mass of overdeveloped built form which is beginning to look tired and outdated. I'm not opposed to development but I do think the planning and design of specific buildings should be carefully considered so that we can create more icons for Sydney.

I also think that part of the space should be open and accessible to the public to use (i.e park, sport facilities etc). I don't oppose this part of the Harbour being used as a working harbour - subject to appropriate controls for residents etc.

It is essential that this area is serviced by adequate public transport - perhaps the metro?

Where possible the historic industrial buildings associated with the power station should be retained and converted into space such as Carriageworks or open for tourists. I would also like to see the Glebe Island Bridge retained and used as part of a cycle/pedestrian path.

Peter Comment 32 19 Jul 2009, 4:03 PM

I would like to see the site developed into an International Convention and Exhibition Centre. The site is the pefect location for this to be built. The current site at Darling Harbour is too small. You only need to look at 'Jeffs Shed' and the new Melbourne Convention centre to see how much Sydney is lacking with this type of facility.

Any development in the site should include the extention of the current light rail system to the Balmain peninsular. It would make sense to extend the light rail from Lilyfield up the Peninsular using the current disused rail line.

wk. Comment 32.1 24 Jul 2009, 2:13 PM

I do agree that the current disused rail line should be developed for light rail, especially if the cruise terminal goes ahead. The tourists need to get into the city!!

LIght rail could also run along glebe island bridge and then along old pyrmont bridge to connect it to the city, eliminating the need for the $5.3 billion metro (that probably wont go ahead anyway)

Maxwell28 Comment 33 19 Jul 2009, 4:53 PM

White Bay is best left as the working harbour area, especially as the current leases for Baileys and the cement/sugar/gypsum bulk terminals will run until 2019/2020 anyway. I would also be happy to have the cruise terminal in White Bay as a further working harbour use for White Bay as this use would be infinitely preferable to the high density residential disasters as have happened at Pyrmont across the water.

Glebe Island is a wonderful opportunity for a strip of waterfront cafes/restaurants similar to King Street Wharf area; the Fish Markets could then be relocated to Glebe Island and become the ultimate tourist destination. The existing fish markets site could become residential as this would suit the current adjacent land use.

One other comment in terms of process- why can't we have an independent development commission assess and approve this whole development similar to the South Australian system so that the precious Sydney Harbour is not subject to pressures due to short term politics and vote buying.

JA22 Comment 34 19 Jul 2009, 6:09 PM

We do not want White Bay and Glebe Island to be another Meriton/Lend Lease/Vivas disaster. An example is the Evolve building rising above the deck of the Anzac Bridge, ugly and out of scale with its surroundings it stands out like a sore thumb from every viewpoint.

The cruise terminal should be incorporated in the Barangaroo site as was originally planned and where the possible extra uses (? function facility) will not affect residents.

Having said that White Bay is the obvious site for the temporary cruise terminal although the current White Bay Berths 4 and 5 with the high bay (the more…

 

bobrail Comment 35 19 Jul 2009, 7:17 PM

Features - Should include good vistas over the water and City.

Activities - Mixture. Not just leisure, as commercial activity and residential will make it alive on dull days and provide revenue rather than just adding to our taxes in upkeep.

Land uses - Mixed. Must be focussed on sustainability, because we need to start getting serious about this issue now, not just talking. This means creating a self sustaining community. This might include local power generation, possibly linked with local waste disposal. This doesn't always mean burning rubbish, there are other means now. Local sewage treatment and local water re-use, including drinking treated water, sustainable transport via ferry, walking and cycling over the Glebe Island Swing Bridge.

wk. Comment 35.1 24 Jul 2009, 2:16 PM

only leasure and commercial activities. no residential development!

eyred Comment 36 20 Jul 2009, 3:52 PM

I am glad to find a forum on this. Does anyone know what is going to be done with our comments? It would be good to see some ongoing summary work put up on this site.

My thoughts:

Activities likely to increase water pollution and oil in the water should be avoided in these landlocked sections of the harbour with poor water circulation. It is great to see the inner harbour ecosystem coming back to life!! For water quality reasons, big ships and polluting water craft should be kept as close to the harbour mouth as possible. Would love to see a more…

 

KathM Comment 36.1 20 Jul 2009, 9:20 PM

Removed by moderator - failed to respect the views of another user.

KathM Comment 36.2 20 Jul 2009, 10:18 PM

Point taken Moderator! But Eyred's comments here are a duplicate posting. See next Forum – An Enormous Opportunity

KathM Comment 37 20 Jul 2009, 9:54 PM

I'm pleased to see (though limited) support for a working harbour in this forum

I do live nearby, and miss seeing all the big container ships and all the maritime activity. I moved here in the 70s, and I'm sad to see all that go just because some other people came here and decided they preferred to look at Lake Burley Griffin.

I wish they would move to Canberra.

If we can't have the big ships back. at least, please, keep some commercial activity, like the cruise terminal, boat repair, refueling facilities, maybe the navy.

And if that's all a lost cause – then more…

 

jmccarthy Comment 38 21 Jul 2009, 10:03 AM

I believe that Darling Harbour is an eyesore and an embarassment to this beautiful city. It is incomprehensible that anyone would want to replicate Darling Harbour at White Bay.

If there is a need for larger convention centres or an overseas passenger terminal such facilities should remain at Darling Harbour.

The Balmain penninsula is a residential area where many young families live.

It would be great to create more spaces on our harbour foreshore that could be accessed and enjoyed by the whole of Sydney - but any development of White Bay and Glebe Island should be in keeping with the beauty and history of the area - not tacky theme parks, mega-malls and convention centres.

Liz Comment 39 21 Jul 2009, 9:38 PM

Balmain might be a home for young families (debatable), but if so, those kids when they grow up will want both employment and recreational activities. And a place to live.

Mixed commercial and residential is best option for this land. The Cruise Terminal is a good idea too, hopefully it can bring tourists and business to the cafes and shops of Darling St.

And residential development (yes, high rise. That's actually a green way of living). It's environmental folly to force people to live in distant burbs, where they have to drive everywhere. We should develop our cities efficiently along sustainable principles, and this area is perfect for that. Especially with a Metro or light rail.

Lets get on with it!

Philippe Comment 40 22 Jul 2009, 1:20 PM

Firstly, I strongly believe that ALL THE FORESHORE should be reserved for public access. With increasing urban density in Sydney, this land is far too valuable to sell off for short term gain.

As to the remaining areas: I suggest they be MIXED USAGE, including:

Parkland, Retail, medium rise residential, small scale commercial, hotels, sporting and entertainment/cultural.

I caution against zoning the area entirely for one use - look at North Sydney, close to 100% commercial means it is lifeless outside of business hours, or look at Pyrmont, close to 100% residential means that it is lifeless most of the time. Have a look at Darlinghurst, Surry Hills, Newtown, and Leichhardt - thriving inner urban areas. They’re thriving because people want to live, work and play there.

Please whatever happens, please do not allocate the development of the entire area to one developer. A 100% pre-planned development will be a white-elephant (eg Darling Harbour) or has a great chance of corporate blandness like the Truman show.

Lastly, please make it ACCESSIBLE for all of Sydney. Both physically (ie train or ferry) and financially (not just for the toffs who need a waterfront house to moor their yacht).

Philippe Comment 41 22 Jul 2009, 1:25 PM

As to the power station - BULLDOZE the eyesore.

London's Tate modern sounds great, but with the MCA already light on numbers I highly doubt an art gallery will be attractive to the majority of Sydneysiders.

London's Battersea power station is the more appropriate comparison - unused for the past 26 years.

Open up some space, so that at least some of the area can be used for much needed parkland.

RJE Comment 41.1 23 Jul 2009, 12:01 PM

Its not an eyesore Philippe. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and that is filtered though class background and culture.

I was raised in an industrial port city, and I love it!

Anyway, over at Rozelle (and elsewhere all over the world), chic expensive apartments are incorporating the "industrial look", ie rusted steel, exposed beams and deliberately aged brick and concrete.

People pay big money for "eyesores", it seems...

MattB Comment 41.1.1 23 Jul 2009, 6:38 PM

Your a dinosaur RJE! The reality is the working harbour is finished (good thing) The bad thing is it's going to be replaced with a luxury boat industry that very very few of us locals will get any benefit from. Unlike our more enlightened waterfront neighbours over at Rose Bay & Double Bay who not only got rid of their maritime industry decades ago but also knocked the new marina proposals on the head some people here are blindly embracing these monstrous industries. I suppose thats why our bays are destined to remain the dark cousins of the better bays in the eastern and northern suburbs. The succesful people know what makes a more desirable area - no industry, no marinas. Residential is the lesser evil.

Sue Comment 41.1.1.1 25 Jul 2009, 6:52 PM

Residential is NOT evil at all, not even a lesser evil! We all have to have a roof over over our heads. And I would like to live here (Rozelle). Waterfront would be great, if I could afford it.

And why is our need to make a living evil? What a strange thing to say! We all have to make a living, or I do... I don't have another source of income, do you?

That industry you despise is what creates the Eastern Suburbs wealth you so admire. Pretty fundamental economics.

MattB Comment 41.1.1.1.1 27 Jul 2009, 8:02 PM

OK I'm not being clear. It's the cleaner water and air in the eastern suburbs that I aspire to. There is a noticable difference in both air and water quality between say Rose Bay and Rozelle Bay.

Lets clean up our act.

KathM Comment 41.1.1.2 26 Jul 2009, 11:53 AM

If the working harbour is finished, that's a BAD thing MattB. We don't have many deep water frontages left, and we will abandon them at our peril.

Not everyone shares your dislike of everything "working". It sounds like you have a very different set of values, which are out of place with the Balmain/Rozelle that I live in and know. Perhaps you'd prefer to go and live with those successful people you admire. The rest of us like it here.

wk. Comment 42 23 Jul 2009, 3:54 PM

affordable housing would be impossible. the location would force the price of an apartment out of reach of regular people. i dont think there should be any residential development (perhaps with the exception along the rail yards) as we shouldnt let it fall into the hands of the super rich.

rather, i think it should be developed into a vibrant district both day and night. Restaurants, cafes, bars, fish markets, small museums, galleries ect. these should be located on glebe island. THe rest of the district could be converted into parklands.

pleeeaaassse do not let this development fall into the hands of one developer. this would ruin to atmosphere and replicate souless darling harbour. rather, we should aim for a diverse, vibrant, exciting entertainment area.

MattB Comment 42.1 23 Jul 2009, 6:44 PM

The area WILL fall into the hands of developers - that is a given. Its what the developers do that matters. The only industry we will get is ELITE LUXURY MARINAS. This will not benefit the locals. If its residential then we will end up with accessible foreshores that benefit us all. I don't like residential but I like luxury power boats and related industries even less. Wait till you see the horrendous dry boat storage facility for 850 boats that HAS ALREADY been approved for Rozelle Bay.

Sue Comment 43 25 Jul 2009, 7:00 PM

I would like the working harbour (Cruise Boats are ok!) and residential development. Those people who oppose everything (houses, industry, retail, everything that makes out economy and society function) must live in a different part of Sydney.

I am inner west born and bred, and like the mix of waterfront industry and residential. We should extend on our own individual character, not try and turn it into an pristine, expensive, exclusive area like the eastern suburbs.

Judging by how high prices are in Balmain and Rozelle, a lot of people agree with me. And like the area! I do.

Sue Comment 44 25 Jul 2009, 7:00 PM

PS. wk. above me is on the right track, but I would like to see more housing, especially if it was affordable. The government could force that requirement from developers. MattB's comments and dismissive, insulting comments to another user in a post further up are very strange. There is nothing wrong with commerce and activity on our waterfront. Thats why I live here, and I certainly don't want to look at a still, lifeless harbour.

Sue Comment 44.1 25 Jul 2009, 8:56 PM

Just so users know – my comment above was "removed" by a machine, not a human "moderator". There was a long, long delay so I hit submit twice. Then when when the duplicate appeared, I edited the second post so that it was something completely different. It now makes me wonder about what this whole process is about. Someone is making a a whole lot of money out of this "consultation." And it is being processed by a computer.

So what is it achieving?

If this post is "removed". it will just prove that this whole thing is a complete fraud. Shame on all of you, get a real job.

admin Comment 44.1.1 Administrator 25 Jul 2009, 9:41 PM

Hi Sue

I have reinstated the earlier comment, when it was flagged to me it had not been altered, my apologies.

Admin

PS For the record I am not a machine

Sue Comment 44.1.1.1 25 Jul 2009, 10:16 PM

Ok, sorry to be intemperate moderator. But you know what its like to be rejected. Most of us humans do... Glad this human isn't working on saturday night

admin Comment 44.1.1.1.1 Administrator 26 Jul 2009, 9:36 AM

No worries Sue and thanks for your contributions.

batty1 Comment 45 26 Jul 2009, 7:53 AM

The bays area is a great opportunity to do something special and lasting for many different groups bearing in mind their different needs

• Locals – green space, access to transport (water and metro / light rail), bicycle & walking paths, play areas for children, access to foreshore

• Sydney people – Balmain powerhouse turned into a cultural and innovation centre with great access by public transport (metro and ferry) and bicycle. It could showcase what is leading edge and part of a world wide community centre of both the arts and innovation

• Visitors to Sydney – I define visitors as those that are in Sydney for more than 5 days, less than this the existing major tourist attractions will suffice. Visitors have more time and will appreciate the walks, green space, access to the harbour, easy transport and the Powerhouse. Some of these people would also be arriving / departing via the Passenger Terminal and would be enticed to come early / stay a while in the local precinct

WJG Comment 46 27 Jul 2009, 7:59 PM

I believe that this whole business seems to be about killing off Sydney's working harbour heritage. Some aspects of it need to be preserved, irrespective of how much the area's gentrified population scorns its working-class past.

We need to return the car terminal to Glebe Island - it makes no sense to have it at Wollongong, because the cars unloaded there are all trucked back to Sydney, putting countless trucks on the Princes Highway, which is stupid.

We need to revive the freight railway to Glebe Island/White Bay. What dunderhead decided to close it down? We need more freight on trains and more…

 

Roisin Comment 47 28 Jul 2009, 11:22 AM

A single land use should not dominate. The area should have mixed uses and not simply be an entertainment or tourist precinct.

The Fish Market for example could be the focus of tourism activities as well as other uses.

The foreshore must be open and accessible for walking and cycling and could meet up with Glebe foreshore walk.

Residential components should include affordable housing so the area features poeple from all walks of life (not just upper-middles like Walsh Bay).

The area could include a passenger shipping terminal.

The working harbour aspects should be retained and concentrated to part/s of the precinct. Maritime uses should be retained as part of the area’s history.

The existing rail access could be used for freigh transport. Haven't we learned from past mistakes about removing transport facilities - they can be adapted.

Nic Comment 48 28 Jul 2009, 4:18 PM

I propose the following:

White Bay:

1) Add some mixed use development here, cafés, restaurants, studios, offices for small companies and light residential.

2) Put a park along the foreshore connecting through to Balmain East ferry point at one end and the Powerstation at the other

White Bay Powerstation:

1) Make this a large mixed use building. I think it is beautiful and with some work could be a real feature to the area. Some nice pubs/hotels, shops and maybe an art gallery at the end of the White bay park and mixed use area would be great

2) Make part of this a station for more…

 

RichardK Comment 49 28 Jul 2009, 9:00 PM

I haven’t had time to read all the comments, so maybe I’m being repetitive. But the 3 or 4 ones just above seem pretty positive and comprehensive, and I like most of the ideas.

I’m not hostile to some waterfront industry staying and other maritime uses. I think the deep water harbour should definitely be kept, for cruise boats and some cargo/bulk materials. Around White Bay I’d like to see things like the fish market, maybe the ferry depot (the one now at Mort Bay). And recreational boats and repair facilities.

With as much waterfront access, boardwalks etc as possible.

I already live more…

 

Russell Comment 49.1 29 Jul 2009, 12:16 PM

Thanks for mentioning Callan Park Richard... Banishing the uni was such a dismal, political-inspired and negative outcome for us. Prompted me to make one last comment below to this forum before it vanishes off into cyberspace, to be filed away on some dusty hard-drive. Tell us what happens now, please!

Russell Comment 50 29 Jul 2009, 12:09 PM

Some of the comments above have stirred a passionate response, but that’s as it should be.

That’s because there’s a lot of money at stake. For developers, sure, that’s a given. But also for the residents, many of whom brought property when it was cheap, and now stand to make massive capital gains. In that sense they have just as much to gain (or lose) by the outcome at White Bay.

But this is not just about the residents (I am one, I’ll repeat that). It’s about our city’s future. A city I love and care for deeply.

This comment will probably one more…

 

samson Comment 51 30 Jul 2009, 9:46 PM

Some great comments have been made that makes you start thinking. Tourism, Cultural, Work environments, Research, Passenger Terminal, Marine uses, sporting ovals, pedestrian links, & foreshore access to name a few. First and foremost I suppose it is best to look at the infrastructure in place or the potential for infrastructure to be put into the Bays Precinct. Clearly there is close access to main arterial roads like Victoria Rd & the City West Link both of which give good access to the North, South, East & West road systems. The first stage of the Metro Rail provides for a more…

 

PaulK Comment 52 31 Jul 2009, 4:27 PM

This is a great opportunity to fix up the terrible ineffective mismash that is plaguing Blackwattle Bay and allow greater public access to the waterway. Priority should be given to fixing up or relocating the Fish Markets, making space for a boardwalk and cycle/walkpath where possible around the western, southern and eastern shores and either removing or at least consolidating commercial boat and concrete operations.

Fish Markets - The chance to move to a purpose-built facility at Glebe Island would be a good one to take given the current site problems. If the Markets are stuck where they are then there more…

 
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