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Reconciling local and state needs
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How should local and regional interests be prioritised when planning the long-term future of Bays Precinct, in particular Glebe Island, White Bay and White Bay Power Station?
This online discussion forum has concluded. You can still browse the site but the discussion area will no longer accept new comments or votes.
Comment 1 24 Aug 2009, 11:23 PM
The Government could start by listening to people, instead of planning things willy-nilly like the Cruise Terminal and the Bailey's Refuelling station. These could have been built elsewhere but they are both going to be built in inconvenient places... never mind the residents or any of the water users.
Don't let the power-boat owners take over either. The Government has approved marinas at Rose Bay, Homebush Bay and a couple of other places recently - we don't need more.
There are no "regional interests" in the White Bay/Blackwattle Bay area. Build the public transport and the cultural facilities for the area and leave it alone otherwise.
Comment 1.1 31 Aug 2009, 7:54 AM
After so many decades of no facilities for Recreational Boaters, the few facilities, go nowhere near meeting the past need, and nowhere to meet the needs of the future Boater.
Boating is a Australians right, after Family a good job and a family home, then the family car and a B O A T, so keep facilities coming
Comment 1.2 31 Aug 2009, 7:13 PM
The rowers use Johnstons and White Bays because they are wonderful calm stretches of water in the early hours of the morning. We generally see a few working boats and kayakers. It is magic!
We hope that whatever is approved does not upset the water and make it unsafe for us. High wash vessels such as ferries and speedboats disrupt the water to such an extent the water becomes unrowable and unsafe. The hard sides of the Bays in the area simply reflect wash and the water stay churned up. It is unsafe for us out in the main Harbour. We are very keen to retain one of the very few areas where we can still row on Sydney Harbour. All the powerboats and ferries on the Parramatta River have made rowing there very difficult and dangerous.
We can generally cope with the working harbour boats as they are few in numbers, slow and generally use the water so frequently they keep a good lookout for us.
Johnstons and White Bays are great places to paddle - hopefully we can protect them for passive users.
Comment 1.3 7 Sep 2009, 11:58 AM
I respectfully disagree. Examples of regional interests include the imports by ship of sugar, rice and building materials into Glebe Island. If the import facilities are removed, these products will have to come by truck from other ports, increasing their cost and adding to traffic congestion and air pollution. There's also a local interest here - plenty of home renovations in Balmain rely on building material imports from White Bay (sand, aggregate etc).
Another regional benefit - the ship repair berth at White Bay. If this was not there, ships that became disabled while in or near Sydney would have to more…
Comment 1.3.1 7 Sep 2009, 12:27 PM
Not sure if P Low is disagreeing with the rowing/passive recreation comment...however, I hasten to explain that import facilities and big ship movements are not of concern to us.
It is the high frequency high wash vessels that make rowing challenging at best and unsfafe at worst that worry us.
No issues at all with White Bay remaining a major shipping port. That is fine for rowers.
Comment 1.3.1.1 7 Sep 2009, 12:42 PM
Sorry, I was disagreeing with part of jro's comments.
I agree that rowers are an important part of the bays, and future uses of this land needs to ensure that rowing/kayaking/dragon boating have the proper facilities and access to the waterway to continue.
Comment 1.3.2 16 Sep 2009, 2:11 PM
WoW you have the right idea, As a major shipping port recreational and commercial use of the harbour works.
Comment 1.4 14 Oct 2009, 1:02 PM
There are regional interests jro. There are national and even global interests. Deep water ports are very rare, and it would be very stupid of us, in the age of peak oil etc, to loose this facility so close to where most people live. It makes no "carbon sense" to truck all our goods back to Sydney from ports a long way away like Port Kembla.
I saw a movie last night called The Age of Stupid, put on by some climate change activists, warning us of our impending catastrophe. I think the people who closed down this port were very, more…
Comment 2 25 Aug 2009, 7:12 AM
This is such a big question, I hardly know where to start...
The above comment by jro is a typical expression of local self interest. Many more will be posted.
But I’m going to kick off in a different direction and note that Balmain residents and Leichhardt Council have a particular reputation, one which outside certain circles on the peninsula and the closed doors of the Wetherill Street big house (last glimpsed in the film Rats in the Ranks), is regarded very, very poorly.
Much of this relates to the selfish and overtly political way issues of land use have been settled in more…
Comment 3 31 Aug 2009, 7:58 AM
Lets balance imput and what better way than this forum, to date the forum has offered balanced, thrust from many postings, So this type of mechanism for me is a winner, but remember I want to ensure we have lots of facilities for boater
Boating is a Australians right, after Family a good job and a family home, then the family car and a B O A T, so keep facilities coming
We as Boaters a proudly Regional interest and proud of that, so remember us you locals
Comment 4 4 Sep 2009, 4:02 PM
Local and state needs are aligned in that both require areas for healthy activities - parks, walking tracks, cycling tracks, fresh air.
What better way to utilise all these foreshores, instead of creating more high rise slums of the future that produce more depressed clients for "Beyond Blue" and "The Black Dog Institute"?
The biggest problem is that politicians don't plan anything ... it's all just a series of knee-jerk decisions in response to polls, election dates, and above all developer donations to political parties, regardless of persuasion.
That's why Sydney has become one of the ugliest cities in the world, especially for those who live here. Tourists here for a day or two on a cruise ship might be fooled, but no-one who lives and works here is!
Comment 4.1 5 Sep 2009, 7:21 PM
Gosh Kate, I wonder if you've noticed that property prices in the inner west are actually quite high? Possibly (and please consider this) that's because rational people WANT to live here, and are prepared to pay a premium to do so on the (not unfounded) expectation that prices will continue to stay high.
The same factors which are forcing prices high now will go on doing so. One is climate change. Another is peak oil. Are politicians really so stupid to be planning for those things?
That is really the key point of this forum topic. Market forces normally decide most more…
Comment 5 14 Sep 2009, 1:45 PM
Declaration of interest – I’m a local resident and homeowner.
For a blog that’s meant to be about the future this has a lot of moaning about the present or past. So first up – my suggestion for the future.
Being an important working part of Sydney is the heritage of these sites AND is the real underpinning of the local area. So we should continue that role, by stopping for a moment and asking, “what are the industries and commerce that will drive Sydney/Australia in the next century?” Once we have answers to this then White Bay more…
Comment 5.1 18 Sep 2009, 1:06 PM
Removed by moderator - the comment was political in nature and off topic
Comment 5.2 18 Sep 2009, 1:58 PM
Sorry Moderator, sorry Sgt P, I was being flippant and lowering the tone of the debate. I also named several local politicians, and that is obviously off limits. My reply was congratulating you on your research and good sense Sgt, so saluté!
And suggesting where those myths came from... But that doesn't matter, you have very deftly rebutted them. It's a pity though that those who claim to speak in the name of the community on these important issues are deliberately boycotting this forum.
Comment 5.2.1 21 Sep 2009, 10:06 AM
Wow RJE, you must have really sunk the boot in, because other posters have been making political comments all over the place.
For example, Kate's comment above - "The biggest problem is that politicians don't plan anything ... it's all just a series of knee-jerk decisions in response to polls, election dates, and above all developer donations to political parties" - is effectively an allegation of mass corruption wrapped in an allegation of willful negligence.
This was apolitical and on-topic?
Comment 5.2.1.1 29 Sep 2009, 12:41 PM
Thanks Lytton
There is a concerted political campaign being waged by some local politicians (eg. Kate as you cited, and many many more), and admin thinks thats ok in terms of cred of this forum. They are willing to let the critics vent their spleen, and make the most outrageous (and as you point out, off-topic) accusations. Then they can say, "hey, we listen to the community"
But if it was a genuine open debate, and capable of producing the sort of discussion and information that would counter the twaddle being peddled in the local News Ltd media, they wouldn't exercise so much control over what we are allowed to read here. There was nothing in my deleted comment that was libelous or offensive, I know that because I work in the media. But that tragedy is, because of the local news monopoly, there are not many other portals.
I didn't protest. I'm well used to authority figures telling us what we can read. The internet age hasn't solved that problem at all.
Comment 6 18 Sep 2009, 1:36 PM
As a local resident of the white bay area, I enjoy watching the activity on the water from my apartment - the rowers, the tour boats, the big ships with their cargoes of sugar and gypsun. I don't see a problem with keeping it as a working harbour - not everyone wants to turn the area into a parkland. No problem with a cruise ship terminal, though it will need to have public transport to take passengers into the CBD,like a light rail stop, so that the roads won't be overloaded with everyone trying to get onto Victoria rd at peak hr - this is congested enough now.
I've lived in Sydney all my life and the last 6 yrs in Balmain and I don't understand why people are against maintaining the working harbour. As Sgt Peperoni stated, we live in a city not the bush. Public access to the water and some open space can surely be incorporated as well. Surely, if it is planned well, we can improve local transport, keep the working harbour, have the cruise ships, keep the rowers and a small recreational area. Why not???
Comment 6.1 30 Sep 2009, 8:42 AM
Kim, you are a wise person I think you need to keep speaking out, we need to find a solution
Comment 6.2 7 Oct 2009, 3:13 PM
I’m with you Kim. Sydney has been and active and vibrant port city for many, many years. Think that there is room for some public space, but the vast majority should be retained as a working harbour.
Comment 7 13 Oct 2009, 3:36 PM
I live in Rozelle and I was prompted to go to this forum after reading an article in a local publication about the timber industry, which used to be on our shores.
I remember that well, because my father used to work in a timber yard down where Blackwattle Bay High School is now. and I used to love going there and watching the trucks load and all the milling operations. There would probably be lots of safety issues now and we would be banned, but in those days the blue singleted workers just used to yell at us kids to more…
Comment 8 14 Oct 2009, 12:44 AM
Readers of Balmain’s Village Voice who are also interested in the issues of this forum may also like to read an item in the most recent issue (October). It’s a letter from local resident and ex NSW Maritme employee. The surprising thing (for this publication) is that it is a stirring defense of the working harbour.
They titled it “against the crowd” because (quite wrongly) they think such views are unpopular.
Well they are – with peninsula real estate agents. Which is the only opinion which matters to a publisher which pumps out 120+ pages of glossy real estate advertising every week.
The more…
Comment 8.1 14 Oct 2009, 4:38 PM
Guilty on the blue singlet :) but not the speedboat!
Comment 8.2 15 Oct 2009, 8:41 AM
I once worked at News Ltd so know they do have an agenda. Largely its just commercial as RJE notes, but also political. Its anti Labor of course, and hence that extends to opposition to any of the governments plans in the inner west – eg the metro, the bays precinct. They look for points of discontent, which they get from those community groups, and ramp them up into into a major conflict stories. That's what's driving at lot of the tension around the issue of "consultation" etc
The best way to hose that down is deny them the advertising revenue. They DO take note of that!
Comment 9 14 Oct 2009, 4:31 PM
Yeah, that stuff about "blue singlets" is funny. I used to wear one myself, but I was a uni student working at Darling Harbour railway goods yard, but determined to be "genuinely working class".
I've just found this website and forum, and very glad I did. The postings and discussions have been interesting, and I'm encouraged that there is support for a working harbour by some locals (like me) I think that's a part of our "green" future, but its a big issue and might be beyond the scope of this discussion topic.
Some of the comments above ring true. I went more…
Comment 9.1 14 Oct 2009, 6:27 PM
I hope port and maritime commercial operations can be encouraged too.
Comment 10 15 Oct 2009, 8:57 AM
I'm also not sure those community groups are interested in reconciling anything. They are totally dominated by a political party with a sense of grievance and an agenda. Their aim is the seat of Balmain
Look at the way the Callan Park issue is playing out. The government gives locals everything they wanted, total control, "open space" etc, and still the issue is used to generate political tension. I hope the bays precinct does not turn out like Callan Park, where nothing can now happen except more weeds and decay, but I fear it will.
The government should be bold, go straight over the heads of Leichhardt Council and all its ginger groups. They will never agree to anything. If that means losing the seat of Balmain, so be it. The State's economy is more important than one marginal seat.
And anyway, its gone already.
Comment 10.1 18 Oct 2009, 1:09 PM
You are so right about Callan Park! And Verity Firth apparently thinks its just fabulous, her greatest achievement. How astonishing. By caving in to Leichhardt Council she signed her own death warrant. I would have gone on voting for her if she's shown some courage and given us a workable outcome. Any problems associated with the design of the buildings could have been overcome if there was some goodwill and a spirit of co-operation. But locals have become incredibly selfish, they have been encouraged to, and there is no good will left anywhere now. Its very sad. But I think the government has brought this problem on itself.
Callan Park is a tragedy. Like Bob, I hope the Bays don't turn out to be another.
Comment 11 18 Oct 2009, 12:54 PM
Local needs as defined by the community groups who get a run in all the papers just seem to mean the power of veto over anything they don’t like. As some of the people who have already posted here have said, its is impossible to “reconcile” anything after that sort of attitude has developed. No matter how much you consult, they will never agree to doing anything, because all they want is parks, views and other property value enhancements.
I think this government has encouraged and promoted that selfish attitude. I live in Rozelle and like Bob was appalled at what more…
