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Sydney's future growth
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Do you think Bays Precinct is important for Sydney's future growth and development? Why?
This online discussion forum has concluded. You can still browse the site but the discussion area will no longer accept new comments or votes.
Comment 1 3 Jul 2009, 9:04 AM
It is on the Harbour, and a large shore line, So thats a great feature. We need it in 3 years not 10.
Comment 1.1 3 Jul 2009, 4:21 PM
Its an opportunity for a large chunk of a fantastic part of sydney that needs an overall plan - lets no miss it - thanks for the forum - great ideas can come from the most unlikely places if only they can be voiced.
Comment 1.2 3 Jul 2009, 4:22 PM
why not - lets get the plan started!
Comment 2 3 Jul 2009, 8:04 PM
"Sydney's future growth and development". Sydney is already rife with development and growth cannot go on infinitely. Its time to look outside the "growth at all costs dogma".
A forward thinking society would save whats left and try to return as much land as possible to open space and nature. The circuit encompassing the bay precinct - Anzac Bridge, Fish Markets, Pyrmont Bridge Road, Bicentenial Park and The western Distributor could be a world class walk. Just look at how popular the Bay Run is in Leichhardt/Drummoyne and this could be a fantastic 7 KM run/walk, especially if the old more…
Comment 2.1 5 Jul 2009, 5:23 PM
Matt, this is not off the topic, but can you briefly explain the type of "non growth" economy you have in mind?
And how far back do you want to go?
There was once an abattoir on Glebe Island. It was a messy, stinking affair and they used to throw the carcasses in the bay. The whole area actually had a shark problem. How about that for a return to the past? The sharks can take care of your dolphins.
A "forward thinking society" probably isn’t envisioning a return to before the white man even turned up and stuffed it all. Retro thinking like that is sometimes labelled romantic, but it’s actually the very definition of a reactionary.
Comment 2.1.1 7 Jul 2009, 11:26 AM
Infinite growth in a finite world is just not possible in the long term. Us humans think we are so smart that we can run roughshot over the environment and replace eco systems with economic systems. We have done this up until now with spectacular results but are we really better off for it? Real happiness comes from our relationships, our health and the contributions we make to our community. It also comes from living in a healthy environment. What so many of us fail to realise is that by our greed for bigger houses, flashier cars and more consumption we are only robbing ourselves of real happiness. We are way rich enough now so what I envision is a step back to just take stock of how much we really need. Do we really need facilities for million dollar power boats? Woudn't eco friendly high density housing be a better outcome for this great area?
I'd rather see the bay being used by dragon boaters and rowers than as a parking lot for power boats - the worst symbols of consumerism.
Comment 3 5 Jul 2009, 5:08 PM
The environmental and economic folly of trucking our cars and goods back to Sydney from Wollongong or even further away, through several National Parks, will one day be recognized. Even by those self serving Balmain NIMBYs who have campaigned so hard to close the port on their doorstep. This whole area should be reserved as a deep water harbour.
Last time I was down on Robert St, there was a big sign erected by the Ports Authority dating back about 10 years ago. It says that the area is controlled by them, and announces they are planning improvements to the ports more…
Comment 3.1 16 Jul 2009, 7:15 PM
RJE, This is supposed to be a forum for ideas, not whingeing, why not save that for the pub. I don't see one idea on any of your posts, only complaints about people who have moved into Balmain, enough already! You obviously have alot on your mind, how about offering some substantial ideas to help solve the problems instead of picking everyone else's ideas apart.
Comment 3.1.1 19 Jul 2009, 5:22 PM
Yeah, I'll take your point about the pub, if I could find one like the ones I remember, full of wharfies, truck drivers, uni students and bikies. One of my favourites was The Forth of Clyde in Mort Bay, which i think later became an advertising agency
My one idea? A working harbour. But I think I said that before...
And a green solution to cargo transfer. Goods should be unloaded close to their market – the most densely populated bits of the inner city. White Bay also has an existing rail link which should be used to the max, reducing our reliance on trucks
Comment 3.1.1.1 23 Jul 2009, 6:59 PM
RJE - you keep on saying that goods need to be unloaded near their markets. Goods are actually warehoused before they are distributed. The warehouses are mostly at Wollongong, Newcastle and Botany. THEY ARE NOWHERE NEAR HERE! The working harbour has gone the way of the DO DO accept it.
Comment 4 5 Jul 2009, 6:43 PM
It is much too valuable a resource to just make a big empty park! That would just benefit the locals (yes, me) and their dogs.
It’s close to the city and transport. People love to live near the water. The Metro is being built (hooray!) I think more people should be allowed to live there, and that makes environmental sense too. Their carbon footprint is much smaller in the inner city than if they are living in distant, sprawling suburbs and driving everywhere.
And some of the working harbour should be retained too. There are not many facilities like that, close to the markets and rail links. I like the big ships too!
Comment 5 10 Jul 2009, 12:08 PM
It is the last piece of harbour foreshore with good links to transport and also local residential areas. Careful planning could be beneficial to Sydney's future, but ad-hoc industrial development could spoil the whole precinct. The last point on the harbour which is not a park is about to be consigned to the industrial waste bin through incompetent planning and hidden agendas.
Comment 6 14 Jul 2009, 8:45 PM
This is a precious part of the Harbour - any development needs to be carefully planned and carried out with an eye on the long term. In recent years Sydney has been left behind by Melbourne when it comes to urban design and re-use of public spaces. Our planners should visit Melbourne and talk to their counterparts for ideas and suggestions. It's critical that the Government continue to actively consult about its thinking and ideas so that this development is created in partnership with the community. If we are thinking about the future, we need to think Working Harbour, Open Space and Creative re-use of these spaces.
Comment 7 19 Jul 2009, 12:31 PM
I do think this space is important for Sydney's growth but what is more important is that we get the right mix of development and open space and uses. Obviously these areas are not being used to their full potential and therefore present as great assets to build a better Sydney. It would be good to see some planning proposals for these areas which we can comment on.
Comment 8 19 Jul 2009, 7:59 PM
This area is within cycling, tram and metro distance of the CBD. We need to be developing it in a way that is as sustainable as possible, because it presents the opportunity to create a place large enough to showcase nice, high density, sustainable living.
The deepwater and rail access may be too valuable a resource to be lost, and therefore some clever thinking is going to be required to mix the two goals together, but I'm sure it is possible.
The scale is large enough to include things like water treatment, power generation and mixed use development, and we should take advantage of that. Minimising car use should be a goal, and outdated thinking like increasing the capacity of Sydney's road network or single use wastelands should be rejected.
I realise that plans like this are contrary to the all powerful RTA and property developers, and require experimentation with things like design, renewable energy and Metro, but now is the time to take stock and plan for the future, when a pause in growth gives us the opportunity.
Comment 9 20 Jul 2009, 10:05 PM
I would add that metro systems require high density dwellings in order to provide enough passengers and land value uplift to justify their huge costs. Rozelle is just not high enough density. Therefore, the metro will either be cancelled by the next government, or the "future proposed" station at White Bay will become a neccessity, with high rise development on top of it. Sorry to break it to all those who think the area can become parkland, but you only have to look at the very light loadings on the trams once they get beyond Pyrmont to see that rail and parklands don't make sense. If the Metro goes ahead, there will be high rises on top of the White Bay station. Only if the metro goes ahead, that is...
Comment 9.1 20 Jul 2009, 10:35 PM
I think its a great idea that people should live where they want to Bobrail. What exactly is wrong with that?
And the Metro is a fantastic, GREEN public transport system. Or will be when it is more fully developed. At least this one is a start.
Would you prefer everyone used their cars and lived in the distant sprawling suburbs, spewing carbon every time they moved around?
I reckon you do
Comment 10 20 Jul 2009, 10:29 PM
Its important because its close to the CBD, and so many people want to live there. That means the real estate has tremendous value.
Though I wish the working harbour and commercial shipping could stay, I guess there is no point in being nostalgic. That value could best be unlocked now by developing the area for housing.
With a Metro station, or more light rail, its a fantastic opportunity for people to live near their work, retail centres and recreation, and not have to rely on cars.
But the developers should have to provide low income housing as well as more expensive apartments. This waterfront should be for ALL Sydneysiders, not just the wealthy few who live their now.
Comment 11 21 Jul 2009, 5:01 PM
The Bay Precinct is not particularly important to Sydney's future growth and development. There are many other issues of far greater significance, such as public transport, health and education to meet the needs of our expanding population.
Comment 12 23 Jul 2009, 4:00 PM
i dont think affordable housing could ever become a practical reality considering the location.
I think all of it should be a public place (praks, restaurants, cafes, bars, markets). dont let it fall in the hands of developers who will waste this opportunity on souless malls, high rise and luxury apartments.
